[00:00:00] Tom Dosch: This is the Texas Land Guys podcast hosted by brothers Tim Dosch and Tom Dosch. With their partners David Marshall and Tripp Rich, they have built DMRE, the leading land brokerage in Texas. With decades of experience brokering deals between landowners and real estate developers, they take you inside the deals that move the market.

[00:00:27] Tom Dosch: Welcome to the Texas Land Guys Podcast. We have a guest with us this morning in the Dallas office, Matthew Heinrich. Matthew, welcome to the podcast.

[00:00:34] Matthew Heinrich: Thank you for having me. Appreciate it.

[00:00:36] Tom Dosch: Appreciate you joining. It’s going to be fun to have our first banker on the Texas Land Guys podcast. First one.

[00:00:41] Matthew Heinrich: Excellent. Yeah

[00:00:42] Tom Dosch: So do you want to give us just a quick overview of yourself, just where you are? You’re obviously here in Dallas with me, but just kind of what you do professionally and some of the other just high level topics we’re going to hit this morning that you’re involved with.

[00:00:54] Matthew Heinrich: So, Matthew Heinrich, I’m with Liberty Capital Bank. I’ve actually been there a month, just made a transition, but been in the commercial lending space over 10 years in the banking space, almost 15. Also executive director over Dallas Real Estate Ministries. Absolutely love and adore the organization that I’m doing. But yeah, live here locally, live in McKinney, work in Addison. That’s a good quick summary.

[00:01:13] Tom Dosch: Yeah, I was trying to remember when we first met, but I think it might have been at like a, some kind of a ministry breakfast or lunch or something.

[00:01:21] Matthew Heinrich: Redemptive real estate.

[00:01:22] Tom Dosch: Okay.

[00:01:22] Matthew Heinrich: First time went face to face but was introduced prior to that, I think through Jeff Gerhardt.

[00:01:28] Tom Dosch: Yep.

[00:01:28] Matthew Heinrich: And Bill Dodson. Kind of all at the same time kind of all made those connections.

[00:01:31] Tom Dosch: Yeah. So there’s a lot of, I guess converging paths because abiding Fathers and then Dream or Dallas Real Estate Ministries and just your leadership there and gotten to be involved with that a little bit. And we’re going to get into that in the podcast because I’d love for our audience, especially if you’re here in the Dallas Fort Worth area or if you’re in town visiting from Houston or Austin and can make a lunch to join Dallas Real Estate Ministry. So I’ll let you share a little bit more about what that is here in a little bit too. I thought first I kind of wanted to dive right into what you do professionally because I think the lending side, we get a lot of questions from our especially developer clients just on what are we seeing on the, the land lending side. Cause that’s kind of a unique side of the business. You’ve been at different banks. And so there’s some banks that are going to be more open to that. There’s times when no banks are lending on land.

[00:02:19] Matthew Heinrich: Right.

[00:02:19] Tom Dosch: And there’s been times when banks have probably got a little bit too aggressive in lending on land. So would be interested just what are you seeing right now in the land space and is it, if you are seeing land lending where, where you are like is it development land, is it investment land? How are you guys making those decisions and what does that look like?

[00:02:36] Matthew Heinrich: Sure, yeah. I would say from a banking appetite standpoint, you’re probably about 70, 30, probably about 30% are interested in doing it. From a significant appetite, I think most banks will find the one off, you know, and go all right, if it’s the right client or if it’s the right piece of land, they’re a lot of them are interested. But from more of an appetite standpoint, I’d say probably about 30% are interested in going after it. Definitely more conservative than it used to be. More equity down as well as structure. They’re looking at what’s the use of the land versus a buy and hold. You know, a lot of the banks are shying away from the buying and holding and going what’s the purpose? How soon are you going to be developing? How soon are you going to be segmenting it off and selling it off? Are you going vertical horizontal? You know, and so knowing what the purpose of the land in I think is probably the most crucial part for those banks to make that decision. They usually like to have that relationship component to it. So not just the landhold, not really just a bridge factor, but hey, we want to know what that use is and we want to be potentially part of that as well. So knowing that where we’re at.

[00:03:35] Tom Dosch: When you’re thinking about like timing and what a bank’s looking for, then if you’re. So if you’re talking to a single family developer that’s maybe going to develop lots or you’re talking to a, maybe it’s a multifamily developer, maybe they haven’t developed in the past, but they want to develop. I know we’ve seen a lot of that in some of the growth markets around dfw. So is it normally, is the bank lending on one of these landloans like a three year term or what are these normally looking like? Cause it sounds like they don’t want it to be a longer term loan where it’s more of an investment speculative play. They want to know that there’s a Pretty short duration to it.

[00:04:05] Matthew Heinrich: Yeah. And some of it’s going to depend on where they’re at in that timing because they’re going to also look at and go, are they in that early development phase where they’re still figuring it out or do they have it figured out? You know, PNZ is done plans and specs like they know what they’re doing with it. You know, if they know that, but they’re still not sure of groundbreaking timeline, then that’s when we’ll get in. All right, we know that this is ready, we know it’s zoned right. We know we’re going to develop it. It’s just a matter of just the timing lined out. Then that’s something that we would be able to do a three year IO into even a mini perm if, depending on what that, if it’s a vertical vertical or if it’s a horizontal, you know, selling off lots. But in the lot standpoint, if they don’t have those worked out and they’re saying, hey, we think this is going to be good, that’s more the investment play and you’re going to have a much smaller appetite. For those that just want to buy and say we got to go through all the due diligence to make it happen, then it’s going to be harder to find those banks that want to just grab that land. And with a speculative nature of it being horizontal.

[00:04:59] Tom Dosch: Do you see more almost than like just bridge to construction loans? And so some of those even be maybe like inside of 12 months or that’s the need. A lot of times it’s just I need a bridge that’s going to get me between land closing to construction and my project’s pretty advanced.

[00:05:13] Matthew Heinrich: Yeah, I see that a lot more knowing that hey, we know where we’re going. So yes, we bridge the construction, but doing both. And again that’s where a lot of the banks who have that appetite want to do both. Not a lot want to do just that bridge component with the takeout of the horizontal or of the vertical. At least from my experience, it’s definitely what’s that project looking at? So 12 months of kind of speculative nature of it that should be breaking ground in the next 12 months, but still doing, you know, a full three years of interest only as you’re developing, as you’re drawing up to complete the project.

[00:05:46] Tom Dosch: And we’ve seen a lot of those, I know we were talking at lunch a while back about there’s a lot of these projects that were probably set up exactly like you just said, and then they just still haven’t broken ground. And so we got to the end of the three years and then now there’s been extensions and there’s several of those that we’re, you know, we’ve been working on talking to the owners about the developers, talking to some of the banks about where maybe they’ve extended like four or five times just because of what happened in 2022 when, when rates spiked.

[00:06:11] Matthew Heinrich: Sure.

[00:06:11] Tom Dosch: Do you have any kind of a sense for just like how prolific that is? I mean, you assume it’s pretty prolific in some areas, like northern suburbs of Dallas and just areas where there was so much speculation and plan development.

[00:06:23] Matthew Heinrich: Yeah. And we were into all that. No matter what kind of project we’re looking at, whether it’s land, whether it’s a project that’s slowing and delays, and we know that’s part of banking. So we’re, as long as we have good relationships with our people, we know that what that plan is, we know why the delays are happening. I mean, you talk about on this podcast all the time, it’s relationship, it’s communication. We want to make sure we know what’s going on. When the bankers don’t hear, that scares us. You know, when we’re just in communication that things go wrong or things go sideways or something happened, we get it. We understand on our side too that that happens. And how can we work with you to. When you extend that IO term, do we need to extend the period? Do you need to do a capital raise and give you time to do that? You know, let’s just talk through it and get to that point.

[00:07:01] Tom Dosch: Yeah, because it sounded like, to your point, if obviously as a banker your goal is you’re, you’re lending new people, there’s collateral, there’s safeguards in place. And so we haven’t seen a lot of foreclosures, at least on some of the land. We’re track, obviously there are foreclosures, but we haven’t seen, we haven’t seen as many on maybe the tracks that developer clients of ours have said, hey, can you keep checking in on this track? What’s going to happen with that? You know, maybe the seller is still asking for a price that’s just kind of a 2021, 2022, just kind of pre interest rate hike, pre the, you know, glut of supply that we’re in. In some of these markets, they’re not going to get that price. And so the development market’s thinking they’ve got to lose the property. You know, if they use debt, they’re going to lose it. And so that’s just such a recurrent or a common thread that we’ll hear is like all these levered, you know, landowners and developers. And it was interesting just talking to you and just understanding it more from a banker standpoint, which made sense where you said, I mean, if you have a relationship with this person the first time that they can’t pay off their loan, you’re not just going to try to take the keys back right away on the property. It’s like, it’s just not. That wouldn’t be good, right? You know, relationship building as a banker.

[00:08:05] Matthew Heinrich: Right, you get the big bad banker, you know, bad reputation where, you know, the bankers are so bad. And it’s like, we don’t want your property, we don’t want the keys to your building. We don’t want to be a landlord. That is not our goal. You know, our goal is to help you be successful. Our goal is to help you, you know, if you need to get rid of it, we’re going to assist in that and going, okay, how can we help you get rid of it? It’s not being managed properly or the market’s not there. How can we get rid of it in a positive way? That’s hopefully a win, win, win for everybody. And in those scenarios there’s obviously a little bit of loss somewhere. But we don’t want to just take your keys. We don’t just want to, you know that I joke and some of your audience might be the, the hard money lenders, but I joke and say we’re not a hard money lender. We don’t want the collateral. You know, some hard money lenders want the collateral. We don’t, we have the collateral. We need the collateral. We need to be short, upright, but we don’t want it. And so let’s work together to see how we can get out of it. And work together. But that’s communication again. The only time loans usually go bad is when communication stops. Outside of that, a lot of stuff can be worked through together.

[00:09:00] Tom Dosch: We’ll hear, you know, when we do hear that there’s a, maybe a land loan on one of our deals, a lot of times it’s at 50%. Is there kind of a rule of thumb that you’ll see where it doesn’t, you know, you’re not seeing it go above a certain percentage of the deal or, and, or there’s, it always kind of has to be within A certain border like you’re never going to probably get above regardless of the market.

[00:09:18] Matthew Heinrich: Yeah, I’d say right now you’re probably majority are probably the 50%. I’d say 50% is also that comfortable range where if there’s a little more speculative nature on it versus hey, we’re breaking ground in the next 12 months, breaking down the next 12 months. You know, I’d look at that and go, hey, we can probably do a little bit more, maybe 60, maybe even 65. That’s a little bit skinny. But at the same time if we know that things happen and everything’s going in the right direction, then we can take a little bit equity on the land component. Still going on the vertical likely. But 50/50 is kind of, that still leaves a little speculative nature. Hey, if it’s kind of out a little bit longer because we’re all in the guarantor support, you know, we’re looking at what’s. It’s not an income producing property. That’s what we do also. So we’re not income producing. So it’s coming from the guarantors. How long is that going to be able to last and how long is that going to maintain? Do we have interest carry rolled in? Do we have cash reserves for those things? All those play a factor as well to know that we can shore that up in a couple of different ways to make it comfortable. But I’d say that 50 to 65% is kind of that range to go in more speculative on the 50, more ready to go horizontal or vertical on the 65.

[00:10:20] Tom Dosch: And I know there’s different levers that can be pulled. But like right now, what do you think rates are for like a 50% landlord?

[00:10:27] Matthew Heinrich: Landlord’s little tougher just because it’s going to be a range here because you have a lot of different across, across the board with appetite. You know, you got the banks that don’t want it but will do it and they’ll be, you know, prime one, prime one and a half. You know, then you’re looking at more a prime, maybe a prime minus if it’s, you know, shovel ready, ready to go. But again, that’s kind of doing the bridge to construction. As in you’re going to get a little bit on the lower end. A prime minus is probably tough. You know, might have said that out loud. Well, my bosses aren’t going to look at that one. No quote on that one. But in that range, the prime, prime one, prime one and a half is probably where you’re looking at for some of that.

[00:11:00] Tom Dosch: And are there certain use types right now that could. You said earlier, like, depending on the use, depending on the timing. But there’s certain use types are just tough right now that, you know, if you’re seeing those uses come across your desk, you’re like, this is probably unlikely that we’re gonna want to dip our toe, but if it’s this other use, then we’re, you know, we’re gonna be really interested in it.

[00:11:17] Matthew Heinrich: Yeah. And I think that’s the secondary appetite to the bank is do the bank want to do horizontal for single families or do the banks want to do industrial? Hey, like industrial, ready to go industrial. So more likely to give better rates, lower risk. I mean, that’s where the rates really come in, is the risk tolerance of the bank with the project. What’s the guarantor strength behind it? What’s the money behind it? Lpgp, you know, strength behind it. Can they do a capital call to call it if they need a little bit more? Like, all that stuff is done in our underwriting. So we know the whole story behind it. And that’s going to be the dictation of the prices.

[00:11:49] Tom Dosch: I’d be interested to hear a little bit about just why you got into banking, what drew you into banking? And I know you spoke about relationships earlier, and so I know it’s a very relational business, and you were doing some relational things before banking, but do you want to just maybe share with the audience a little bit about that journey and getting into banking and then we can kind of go back into what you enjoy about what you do now in banking?

[00:12:10] Matthew Heinrich: Yeah. I will say I love banking because I’ve been doing almost 15 years, the relationship component. And my job is never the same. Every day it’s different. So it’s not the same. Repetitive and repetition every day. So that’s what’s kept me in banking. Genuinely, the answer for why I got into banking was, God, 100%. I don’t have to go too far back, but I can if you’d like. But I used to be in the fitness world. I was 10 years in the fitness world. And I literally had a client come up to me. July 4th was nobody in the gym, it was a holiday, and he was working out. And he’s like, what do you think of banking? And I’m like, I don’t think of banking. Why? And he said, I think you’d make a great banker for what you do in fitness. I think you’d make a great banker. And I said, okay. Started an interview process and three to four months later I was working for him in the retail banking space.

[00:12:57] Tom Dosch: Wow, that’s amazing.

[00:12:58] Matthew Heinrich: Genuinely. God opened a door and, you know, I did a lot of praying about it and made that transition almost 15 years ago.

[00:13:04] Tom Dosch: Yeah. That’s amazing. To go from the fitness world, where you did that for over a decade, to make a change. What was it like to go from. And I know in the fitness world, you were in management and stuff too, so you were used to running a business and.

[00:13:14] Matthew Heinrich: Correct.

[00:13:14] Tom Dosch: You’re not just, you know, like working with clients and just training and not used to. Maybe now what you do now at that kind of scale. What was that like, though? That still had to been very different to go from. And even just like what you would have assumed you’d be doing in banking and just a different mindset, you know.

[00:13:29] Matthew Heinrich: There was more crossover than I think most people would realize in the role that I was in. It was the management aspect. I had very few clients left. It was more hiring, onboarding, training for cross selling, training for sales component of it, very much relationship. It’s. That’s when people in fitness stay with you is building that relationship and building the value in what you’re doing. Balancing a PNL. We had 206 products and services. We had phlebotomist, chiropractors on staff. So it wasn’t just, you know, personal training boot camp that a lot of people think. So it’s very complex business model in comparison to the industry. And so that’s where I think my boss saw the crossover. He’s like, oh, you hire, you onboard, you grow and you develop. So stepping into banking, there was all of those skill sets that were really just a perfect crossover. My first day, literally one of the bankers very respectfully looked at me and says, he’s from fitness. What can he teach me? And I said, well, you can teach me how to open a checking account and I can help you with client relations. And it was a pretty good relationship after that where she was like, okay, I understand where that’s coming from. We developed a good relationship over a couple years and working together, but it’s that same thing a lot of people have. How’d you make that crossover? Which I do give full credit to God of just how that transition happened, but it was a very good transition in the skillset crossover.

[00:14:44] Tom Dosch: Well, and being in the fitness space, I’m assuming a lot of. A lot of people are drawn to that space out of a passion for fitness.

[00:14:50] Matthew Heinrich: Yes.

[00:14:51] Tom Dosch: Now maybe you were a little bit more removed from, like, the actual. Like you said, thinking about, like, the boot camp, the working out, working out with a client. And you’re running this really complex business that’s now just a business. It could be fitness, it could be something else. But, you know the big bag banker that you talked about earlier when you went from fitness, which I’m assuming you had a passion for, or at least do. Yeah. Correct. To banking. Have you developed that same kind of interest and passion in banking?

[00:15:16] Matthew Heinrich: Yes. So my degree is in kinesiology from Penn State. Gonna go into teaching. Went into fitness instead. Primarily because the money was better than teaching. Just being honest. Yeah. But at the same time, what I learned moving into fitness was I had a passion for students. And I went from underage students to I have adult students in front of me who want to learn how to get. Be in better shape, want to learn how to be healthier. And so I found the passion for. I was still teaching, and I was teaching to an audience that wanted to learn and wanted to grow and want to develop and wanted it. Most of them change their lives. And that same passion is in banking. I love to teach. I love to take somebody who doesn’t know what they’re doing and showing them, balancing a budget. Basic stuff in retail banking, you know, you’re balancing your debt, spending within your means. I’m a Dave Ramsey fan, even though I’m a lender. I know it’s a little bit of hypocrisy, but discipline, though, is important. I think your brother said in a recent podcast, talking about just living a life of discipline just helps us line it up so much better of living that and challenging yourself through that discipline, but can definitely give you more balance and. And teaching that in banking as well. When you’re talking about areas. I am a generalist overall from a lending space, but construction, development, and then church lending are really kind of my wheelhouses. And what I have a passion for. And church lending is a lot of education and a lot of time of taking them and showing them of what you’re ready for and what you’re not ready for, and setting out a plan of when will this be able to happen? God’s given you a vision. Great, Wonderful. Now let’s find out what that timing is and those steps along the way. And so walking with clients to help them take those steps is really what the relationship banking part is. And why continuously do what I love.

[00:16:56] Tom Dosch: I’ll take the beta on the church lending because that sounds really, really interesting. Is that all new construction, that expansion mostly, or these churches recapitalizing as well, or what does that normally look like?

[00:17:07] Matthew Heinrich: You know, I would say most of, because of my connections. A lot of it has been construction, you know, ground up construction or major additions. I’ve done a few refinances with churches or switching buildings. So hey, we’re selling this one or we were in a renting space and now we’re going to be buying our first building. So usually that’s almost always a value add because whatever space they want isn’t going to quite be where they’re at. And so that’s where bridging that gap of you want to buy the land to build later or you want to buy, you know, a building to renovate. But are you in that right position? Because I will never lend a church more than they can handle. One of the first churches I ever did, the pastor and I were standing out on his 40 acres. He said it and I steal it from him and say if you build it, they might not come. And so we have to kind of prepare for that. With the churches of going, we believe you’re going to grow. We believe if God has his hand on this, it’s going to be for his glory. However, we want to do this smart, we want to do this at the right time. And so sometimes slowing them down is a little demotivating for them. At the same time, we figure out what they can handle now, how we can prep them in a good winning way, and then we let God flex his muscles during the process because we’ve seen that multiple times, which is taking a deal that’s dead to nope, we’re going again. And those stories are amazing.

[00:18:20] Tom Dosch: So well, it’s so good to bring those two things together. The faith that the church has that if we build it, they’ll come believing that, believing that God’s behind this is going to happen. But then you being able to come and say, yes, we have faith that God can make it happen, but we also have to do this like in wisdom. There’s a lot we can learn from scripture about wisdom, not being foolish, counting the cost ahead of time, those different things. But there’s, there’s a lot of these churches that they really do need good advice and then they need the guidance. And we’ve, we’ve interacted and worked with a lot of churches and I think it’s one of the more, one of the more challenging clients to work with because they just have so many people involved because there’s always the head pastor and however they’re set up, but the elders or the deacons and there’s always however many bankers in the church or however many real estate guys in the church. And so it’s hard because it’s just getting all, everyone on the same page can be really difficult.

[00:19:06] Matthew Heinrich: But one advice I usually give very early on is get the outside counsel, get the outside developer or the outside general contractor. You can refer as many in house people as you want to them, which will hopefully do it and bless the church and be able to do it at a lower cost, but run it through that third party gc, that third party developer so they can handle all the political side of things and it usually maintains the health of the church better than when they try to do everything in house. Unfortunately, we’ve seen some bad scenarios and some bad relationships through that. So having that wisdom there of let’s have somebody manage it from top level from the professional standpoint and we’ll keep those and maintain the relationships on the internal.

[00:19:44] Tom Dosch: Yeah, I think that’s good advice. Why don’t you talk a little bit about where you were banking and then now you’re at a new bank and just some of what you’re working on now and what you’re excited about, you know, in the new, new opportunity you’re in.

[00:19:57] Matthew Heinrich: Yeah. Liberty Capital bank out of Addison. Actually just two really close our office here.

[00:20:00] Tom Dosch: Yeah.

[00:20:01] Matthew Heinrich: From where we’re at, just absolutely love the leadership behind the bank. You have Ryan Friend and Alan Morris that are the bank president and CEO and then you have Holt Lunsford as one of the primary investors and they started the bank and chartered it in 2008 and just good time to start a bank.

[00:20:15] Tom Dosch: Right.

[00:20:15] Matthew Heinrich: You know their story is amazing because they got their charter 2008 and it was because of everything that happened in 2008. They were one of the last groups of charters to have at that point and before all the regulations changed and made it much harder to get. But during 2008 they didn’t have any loans. They were a brand new charter. And so all the bad loans that happened through the crash, they didn’t have them on the books. And so they were able to one modify their underwriting and go, let’s learn from what just happened. And in addition, we’re a very solid secure bank. And so they were able to raise capital and deposits and relationships very quickly because they didn’t have bad loans on the books. So they’re able to grow very quickly in the Very early phases to make them a solid, solid presence here in the Addison area. And again, they primarily service the DFW area, but they bought a bank just a year ago and so now we’re in northern San Antonio and then one out in West Texas as well. So I have four locations. But the primary Addison one here covers all of dfw. Made the transition one because of the leadership. Just really respected the leadership as I got to know them. But also their appetite. You know, they do have a land appetite. They do have development and construction as well as churches. So all the things that are in my wheelhouse. They are interested in bringing on those clientele, bringing on those relationships. Very much relationship oriented. If you look at their clientele, we have some crossover, you know, in their clientele of people that I know and through the DREAM Ministry as well as some others. But what they have in their growth perspective and growth track as well as I’ll say the first day I showed up, I work with it, I get on and I open up my emails and the very first email I have is their weekly corporate daily devotional in scripture. And so knowing that that was something that they wear on their sleeve, walking up front was also an attraction. I’m just coming on to like minded people.

[00:21:58] Tom Dosch: Yeah, that’s really cool. And maybe that’s a good transition when you talk a little bit about Dream because I think that’s what’s always encouraged me about Dream and going. And I know you’ve were now the executive director of IT and big leadership role. Really grown it. But it’s just how open you are about the purpose of why you’re there. You know, networking people, but worshiping the Lord, sharing stories, encouraging people. But it’s neat because it’s always how you start every, every meeting at Dream and it’s been. It’s really grown a lot, which is incredible. Several hundred people coming to the end there’s a lot of different aspects of it. But to the monthly lunches, you’ve had some great speakers that have come. The annual lunch that you guys do. I don’t know how many people show up to that, but that’s. Yeah, that’s a. It’s pretty amazing. You go there and it’s like every. Probably most of our audience on the podcast is at that. At that one number of them. Yeah. Which is really neat. And you’ve had some great speakers at that as well. But maybe talk a little bit about how you got involved with dream.

[00:22:52] Matthew Heinrich: Sure.

[00:22:53] Tom Dosch: And then what DREAM is becoming and it stands for Dallas Real Estate Ministries. D R E M. Correct. I think I referred to it for a long time as dream on accident. So. But it is dream, right? There’s any confusion?

[00:23:04] Matthew Heinrich: Well, there’s some of the veterans that say Dream, but I went to Bill Dodson, our founder, what is it? And he’s like, it’s dreams. Dream.

[00:23:09] Tom Dosch: There you go.

[00:23:10] Matthew Heinrich: But yes, yes, that’s a constant battle with some, with some that get stuck in there. But it is dream. Yes, sir. So, yeah, Dallas Real Estate Ministries. This is actually our 40th year, so our 40th anniversary. Wow. Super excited. So 1986, Bill Dodson founded the ministry. He was, the short story is he was woken up in the middle of the night and he’s like, I don’t know why I’m awake, but I’ll get on my knees and pray. And God said, I want you to build a spiritual house in the Dallas real estate community. And he’s like, I don’t know what that means, but okay. And started telling people, because he was in the industry, he was in real estate and started telling people about what his vision is and what his thought was and finally called a meeting after some time. And the first day he said, hey, there’s 12 of us sitting around. And he heard God say, as I had my 12, you’re going to take these 12 and we’re going to create that spiritual house in the DFW community. So how I found Dallas Real Estate communities was actually through this networking. I had a friend that said, hey, want to come network? And I said, great, what’s the networking group? He told me. Then he said, it’s, you know, faith based organization. I said, would love to be there. And then showed up the first time and just knew that there was something different and have been there ever since. That was over 10 years ago. And then stepped into my role three years ago as the executive director three and a half years ago now. And really what Dallas Real Estate Ministries is, is a network of real estate professionals from everything related. So from your investors and your brokers, land guys, developers, GCs, bankers, equity guys, investors to services, you know, your title, your civil, everything else in between. So really, if it’s industry related, very welcome. Our impact lunch that you mentioned is kind of our monthly corporate event and that’s where we just bring everybody together to network. And we’ve been averaging almost 200 people a month.

[00:24:48] Tom Dosch: Yeah, that’s awesome.

[00:24:49] Matthew Heinrich: And it’s grown almost 60% since stepping in the role three and a half years ago and would love for people to come and check it out because it is just an opportunity to meet like minded people, really network with those in the DFW community. But we’re usually there for half hour, 45 minutes to network and then I’ll get up and open us up in scripture and prayer. And then our speaker is usually somebody in the real estate industry and they will come up and give their personal testimony and how it relates to business and their personal life. And then we close and there’s more networking at the very end. So just a great opportunity. And then we do another 19 events a month as well.

[00:25:22] Tom Dosch: Yeah, it’s amazing all that it’s become and the, and the growth of it. I think what I’ve really enjoyed about your approach to it has been just bringing somebody from the real estate community in Dallas to share their personal story.

[00:25:33] Matthew Heinrich: Yes.

[00:25:33] Tom Dosch: And their testimony. A lot of the speakers you’ve had are extremely successful people. But it also can just be just somebody shoulder to shoulder, you know, that’s a peer. It doesn’t have to be somebody flying in from somewhere else to share what would still be an amazing story. But I think it’s really powerful too when it’s, when it’s maybe somebody, they’re like, oh, I’ve gotten an email from them or I’ve worked on a deal where they were on the other side of that deal or you know, their whatever it is, title company. And then you’re now hearing their story and it definitely speaks to the relational side of what you do on the banking side. Just trying to build relationships and how we can do that, do that together in Christian community and then also in real estate Christian community.

[00:26:09] Matthew Heinrich: Right.

[00:26:09] Tom Dosch: Which is pretty neat. So may have to get you a different room pretty soon if it keeps growing. I know you guys don’t tell

[00:26:16] Matthew Heinrich: Park Cities Club, but yeah, you guys, we’re have to find plan B. If, if we continuously, if God continuously sends people our way and we grow out of that room, it’s been, it’s been a blessing. 

[00:26:26] Tom Dosch: Yeah. Blessing.Well, when you took over the role you’re in now, I mean, did you probably, did you have any idea that it was going to grow to the extent I’m sure you wanted it to, but the extent it has and I mean because you’re kind of thinking about like where do you want it to go from here? You know, where. I guess it’s wherever God has it going from here. But it’s grown so much probably beyond what you would have expected.

[00:26:43] Matthew Heinrich: Yeah, it’s. Keeping up with God has been the Boards in our continuous prayer of how can we keep up with him because he’s been continuously sending people our way and we’re just trying to be obedient and serving the community. So we’ve expanded into six prayer groups. Now we’re at two. And now we’re going to be at six prayer groups and they’re all over the metroplex to try to cater to people. We’re just about to start a Rockwell one next month, which is phenomenal. Just got into Fort Worth about six months ago. So we’re kind of all the way across the board, which is just wonderful. And it’s just again a networking component come together. But we are praying together, we are in community together while that networking happens. Or first and foremost is putting God at the front of all we do. Second one is encouraging people to do the same. You know, putting God in the front of our business is what DREAM stands for and trying to help people build that confidence as well as that skill set. And then the third one is doing business with like minded people. It really is the business component. I mean that’s the heart of Dream in its founding since 1986 is just bringing business owners and business professionals together in order to do business together with God in the middle.

[00:27:44] Tom Dosch: Yeah, it’s encouraging. I haven’t, every event I’ve been to, I’ve seen clients there, you know, whether I expected them to be there or not. Had no idea, you know, just ran into them, which is a lot of fun. What would you say just related to Dream? And then I guess another ministry that we had connected over was Abiding Fathers. But your passion around just fatherhood and being a good dad, because I know that’s important to you too. And whether that’s through a specific ministry or just in general, I know that that’s something you’re, you’re passionate about and something that we need more of.

[00:28:09] Matthew Heinrich: Yeah, I think that’s where our connection made. Bill Dodson’s connection made originally even more so. Even though I met, even though it was that dream before I went met abiding fathers and went through that, I sat on the abiding father’s board for over four years and just in support of Bill’s heart towards that which developed in myself and just the impact that that ministry has. And to your point, the topic of fatherhood just, I mean the first part of the book and the first part of the curriculum is just saying, are you an absent father? Well, the way most people define it is am I here, am I home or Am I gone completely or am I in the home? And Bill redefines it and says, are you an active father, not just an absent father? Because if you’re, you can be, you can come home from work and check out and not be there for your children. You know, we know, come be on social media, can come be playing video games, can all of a sudden come back and just do work all night long. Yeah, yeah. And just not be around. And I have an 18, 17, 16 and 15 year old. So very active in everything that they’re doing and just trying to be there to be supportive. So yes, very near and dear to my heart and then helping others do that. And one, through abiding father’s ministry, a curriculum. But even just in men’s fellowship through dream, we challenge that as well in our mission marketplace that we do a dream, which is our discipleship component. It’s sitting around with men and saying, hey, what are we doing as men in the workplace? But first and foremost, what are we doing in our household, in our home, because we know the home is the number one. So what are we doing with our personal relationship with the Lord then? Are we doing with our relationship with our wives, then relationship with our children? Oh, work is forth and sometimes it has to be redefined for a lot of men of not moving that one to the top.

[00:29:45] Tom Dosch: Yeah, I think it’s a, we’ve talked about in the podcast, but it’s a struggle. I mean, when you have the technology we have now where it is so available and it could be things like video games or maybe traditionally it would have been like sports, you know, just getting home and just watching sports and just whatever it is, not really interacting with your family. But it’s really easy to just kind of be on all the time. People are calling all the time, you’re getting text messages. Everything’s so important. You know, that’s always trying to buy for your attention and your kids are right there needing you to be an active dad. And reading through that curriculum that he put together, it’s. It’s really good curriculum and it’s, it’s just so biblically based. I mean, when you, when you look at what Bill put together all those years ago that God had him put together, it’s really just out of scripture and it there, it’s really powerful for a reason because that’s the way God intended it to be. But that encouragement, I think also comes through even with something like dream and your passion about, you know, trying to help those that are coming and being part of dream to take it seriously, to see the opportunity that we have almost as like the extended family that we are in Christ, you know, and to have community together, worship the Lord together. Like I said to be upfront about it and not kind of hide the fact that like it’s Dallas Real Estate Ministries, it’s a Christian, you know, organization. This is what it’s about. I think that’s really neat and it’s encouraging to see really just to see it growing. And I know there’s a lot of other people involved that are working hard and great board, great dedicated themselves. Yeah. And very, you know, always very active. And I’m looking forward to the lunch. I’m assuming we’ll have the big aviation museum. Is that going to be there again this year?

[00:31:16] Matthew Heinrich: Yeah, it’s. We don’t normally do it in November because of scheduling wise, we’re I think it’s October 30th.

[00:31:22] Tom Dosch: Nice.

[00:31:22] Matthew Heinrich: Okay. The very end of October this year. But we will be at Frontier Flight Museum again. Have everything lined up. Actually just met with the board yesterday and starting to organize and plan that. Already being in that season. And so currently looking for all of our table hosts and sponsors and getting into that geared up time because it’s just a great opportunity to gather those in real estate in that room. And like you said, there’s everybody there. There’s over 500 people there. And it’s just a great time of networking. We do networking before and after in the very similar. It’s like our impact lunches times 10 is what we do and so very excited about it. Coming up, we have Dary Stone speaking this year. So if you don’t know him, you want to come hear him and hear his story. Very, very well connected in the real estate community.

[00:32:06] Tom Dosch:  Yeah. Well, if you’re listening to the podcast, definitely come check out. That’s a good place to get introduced to Dream, if you’re interested. So definitely come check that out. October 30th Aviation Museum.

[00:32:14] Matthew Heinrich: Yes, sir.

[00:32:15] Tom Dosch: So yes, that’d be good. I want to talk a little bit about McKinney because I know that’s where you live. And from a real estate perspective, McKinney has just continued to explode with growth.

[00:32:25] Matthew Heinrich: And my wife’s still mad about that,

[00:32:26] Tom Dosch: But yes, because she’s from McKinney. Right.

[00:32:28] Matthew Heinrich: She moved to McKinney when she was eight years old.

[00:32:30] Tom Dosch: Okay.

[00:32:31] Matthew Heinrich: Been there. She didn’t claim it for sure. Right off the square, live right off the square. The church that we attend, the Parks church in downtown McKinney my wife’s parents used to used to be a law firm and they used to clean it when they first moved here. Wow. And it was. Now that’s where, you know, the youth group is held and where church is being held and everything. But yeah, she’s been here for most of her life.

[00:32:50] Tom Dosch: Remind me, how long have you been at McKen?

[00:32:51] Matthew Heinrich: You’ve been there 22 years.

[00:32:52] Tom Dosch: Quite a while too. Yeah. So the growth you’ve seen, I’m kind of interested just to talk about the growth because even I’ve only moved from Houston to now we live in Frisco. But five, six years ago. And just the growth over that amount of time has been incredible. And just the amount of business that we’ve done when we’ve kind of backed up and looked at, okay. Where we closed a lot of our deals because we work all across the Metroplex. But a lot of times we’re really just going where clients want us to go. And so Trey and I looked at recently and I’m McKinney’s the number one city you looked at just a city that we’ve closed transactions in. And it’s incredible just to see. I mean it is a large landmass, there’s a lot of land and it expands and that could be part of it. But just to see the different types of development. I mean you have like world class, really interesting entertainment development like the surf park and Tri Aikman Steel and the  outside arena that’s coming 121 and 75.

[00:33:40] Matthew Heinrich: That’s a. If you haven’t seen it, monstrosity. And not in a bad way. It is amazing to watch and what they’re building out there right now and just bringing more and more through the area. But when I moved there, just under a hundred thousand people. Now there’s 230, 237I think last I last I looked. So more than doubled since I’ve been there. I think that was 25. When my wife lived there. She said she went to the big city to do restaurants of Plano. You know, just to go to a restaurant. 25,000 people when she lived there

[00:34:09] Tom Dosch:. Wow, that’s incredible.

[00:34:12] Matthew Heinrich: So just amazing growth that we’ve seen. And then there was nothing along 380. I mean when I lived there, when I first got there, the funny story is 121 was just a one lane road from Frisco Mall all the way up. And so it was just a one lane road. Once you get past that. When that’s when I moved up there and bought a house when 121 was going in. I had a dirt bike. I used to, like, rip up and down the middle of it. Don’t tell. Don’t tell anybody.

[00:34:32] Tom Dosch: That’s crazy.

[00:34:33] Matthew Heinrich: Before the sun came up, I’d go up and down the middle before.

[00:34:36] Tom Dosch: This is like just 20 years ago.

[00:34:37] Matthew Heinrich: This is. Yeah. I mean, less than that because it was probably my 18 year old. She was probably, you know, a couple years old, so probably 16 years ago.

[00:34:44] Tom Dosch: Wow.

[00:34:44] Matthew Heinrich: Or so. And when it was getting expanded now, what, nine lanes?

[00:34:48] Tom Dosch: Yeah. Oh, it’s incredible.

[00:34:49] Matthew Heinrich: No, 12 lanes when it was just one and one when I lived up there. So it’s been.

[00:34:53] Tom Dosch: It makes sense because there’ll be. We’ll have clients that are, you know, based in Dallas. Like, in Dallas. And they’ll be like, oh, I haven’t been to McKinney in a long time. Or, you know, they’ll be like, well, I’ll be like, when’s the last time you went to downtown? Because we’ve been marketing this big property next to downtown. I’ll be like, I haven’t been there for probably, you know, 15 years. So with what you’re talking about, it’s like you wouldn’t even.

[00:35:11] Matthew Heinrich: Wouldn’t recognize.

[00:35:12] Tom Dosch: Be able to recognize it. And what you did think of it then, yeah, you probably shouldn’t go build some huge. But today it’s totally different. Like, you could justify. You could justify it now.

[00:35:21] Matthew Heinrich: Yes. Totally different. And I had a friend years ago, I kept trying to remember, he was probably down in this area and told him I was living in McKinney. And he’s like, you haven’t moved away from McKinney. He’s like, that’s like Oklahoma. I’m like, you thought McKinney’s like Oklahoma? And this is probably, you know, less than 15 years ago, you know, in that mindset. And now Sherman and Denison are part of the Metroplex or coming close to, you know, growing into what we’re doing.

[00:35:42] Tom Dosch: So, yeah, it’s incredible. Well, you’ll get that a lot with Melissa and Anna. But, yeah, it just continues to grow further north. And I think we will eventually, probably. It’s hard to say, run out of land, because people have always asked us that, you know, you guys are land brokers. Aren’t you worried about running out of land? It’s like, there’s a lot of land in Texas, and you can always, always start redeveloping, too.

[00:36:02] Matthew Heinrich: Sure.

[00:36:02] Tom Dosch: But there are the core parts of McKinney. There really is not as much land left as. As there was. I mean it’s been incredible to see that 121 corridor all kind of develop right now at the same time. I was surprised when I moved here because by the time I got here those roads were in.121 was in. And you’re like, this is incredible freeway and you have all this growth on both sides. How is there nothing? You know, it’s all this land and then now it’s all. All gotten developed.

[00:36:26] Matthew Heinrich: Yep.

[00:36:27] Tom Dosch: Or is being developed really at the same time. And it’s all mixed use. You know, the farm and the Avenue and the Gateway, all these huge developments. They’re all four story minimum, you know, five story or taller developments. You know, big developers, Billingsley and all these big groups developing it. So it’s been really interesting. And you live, you live kind of like right in the center of McKinney. Do you spend much time going up north of 3D? Because that area has really, really expanded. I’m trying to think like Irwin park and all that where it’s. That used to be like kind of out in the middle of nowhere. We used to be being like a couple years ago.

[00:37:00] Matthew Heinrich: Yeah.

[00:37:00] Tom Dosch: And now there’s development all the way up to it.

[00:37:02] Matthew Heinrich: Going all the way up. I mean the horizontal going in for a lot of neighborhoods. There’s a new multi family project. We’re off of Lake Forest just north of the Baylor Hospital that’s going in up there. Actually working with a client right near there as well. And just continuously expanding their land going up to Lake Forest and then all the way up to north of Vernon Park. You just keep going up and it’s. Oh yeah, great farmland up there and that kind of stuff. But it’s.

[00:37:23] Tom Dosch: It’s where the outer loops cutting through and all that.

[00:37:25] Matthew Heinrich: Exactly.

[00:37:25] Tom Dosch: Yeah, yeah.

[00:37:26] Matthew Heinrich: And it’s been continuously growing up there and we’ve really. I’ve really liked to see it. You know, the same thing. My wife doesn’t like the commercial side of it, but you know, that’s just the. Because she’s been there for so long. 

[00:37:37] Tom Dosch: Well, downtown McKinney sells a lot of charm and they’ve done a really good job with that. Obviously there’s been a lot of development, so if you used to live right off the square, you probably wouldn’t do that anymore. It’d be pretty different today to do that. But it’s. That was one of the most unique places I had been to in Texas when I went to downtown McKinney. Just such a neat, neat place. I tell people all the time we live in Frisco. I love Frisco, but it’s more of a commute thing because we office right down the tollway, and I live really close to the tollway. If I had my choice, I’d live in McKinney. I just. The culture there. I love going to downtown McKinney and people are wearing cowboy hats. And it’s just a little bit more like, you know, stereotypical Texas. You have the actual cowboy hat store. You just kind of feel like you’re in Texas. And there’s some neat, really neat little restaurants and, you know, places to eat, parks. And they’ve done a great job.

[00:38:22] Matthew Heinrich: Yes.

[00:38:22] Tom Dosch: With that whole area. And it’s interesting as you talk about McKinney, it makes me think Salina. I know Salina has been on everyone’s radar, that this is going to be this incredible city. It’s. The land mass is enormous. I think it build out Salinas can be like over 400,000 people. So it’s going to be enormous. But at the same time, a lot of our developers had gone out to Salina early, and there’s just been a lot of development, and it’s just taken a little bit longer for people to get up there than maybe they expected. And so we’re kind of in this weird place right now where, you know, investing in Salina today is a little bit difficult from a development standpoint because there’s so much. Yeah, so much that’s been built. But I think when we fast forward five and ten years from now, it’s just going to be incredible, the growth. And you think about some of what’s been built even close up to that area, like the PGA headquarters and the whole Firefly development that’s going in, and that’s. That’s really far north. I mean, that’s all the way up at 380. A lot of times we’re. We’re educating people down here in Dallas on just how far north it’s really gone. And I think it’s been kind of an advantage for me stopping. No, it’s not stopping. No, it’s been kind of an advantage for me coming in, as you know, from Houston, not just trying to learn dfw, because I didn’t have any preconceived notions around, like, well, that’s Oklahoma or that’s so far out, or, you know, it’s just. And so I came here and just saw, like, wow, there’s a lot of growth in these areas and there’s new roads and utility. Like these look like good places to go invest. And so we’ve been all about. We’ve been all about McKinney and just the growth there. And even this year, a lot of what we’re working on is. Is in McKinney and we’ve continued to see like there’s definitely parts of the development community that feel like, okay, there’s a lot of. A lot happening. Can it absorb as much as happening? But then I’ve, I’ve heard stats like if you take that empathy or development, you’re talking about within just a couple mile Radius, it’s like 5,000 jobs coming because the airport and just because of everything that’s being built, which is so good for that part of town.

[00:40:16] Matthew Heinrich: Right.

[00:40:16] Tom Dosch: And so you probably won’t be leaving McKinney anytime soon. No, I’m guessing no.

[00:40:20] Matthew Heinrich: Been there for a long time and don’t foresee us moving anytime soon on there.

[00:40:24] Tom Dosch: Dallas is coming to you too.

[00:40:26] Matthew Heinrich: Yes.

[00:40:26] Tom Dosch: Because with all the recent announcements of the Stars, the Mavericks, Samsung, AT&T, everything’s really moving much for move to it.

[00:40:35] Matthew Heinrich: It’s moving.

[00:40:35] Tom Dosch: That’s right. It’s moving. It’s moving up there. Yeah.

[00:40:38] Matthew Heinrich: And that’s where. When. Not exactly, but you know the talk years ago when Boyd High School was built, it was the third high school was built and just a little bit south of Baylor. South. Just a little bit less. About a mile, mile and a half south of 380. That was like far north McKinney of the populace. And it was like building so far there’s already Mckin North. Why are we building, you know, so far north? And like that’s going to be the middle of McKin.

[00:41:01] Tom Dosch: Yeah.

[00:41:01] Matthew Heinrich: And everything in 380’s happened and everything’s being developed more and just drove past all of those developments west of McKin north and just more and more horizontal. It’s just going to be more and more houses and developments coming through and just continuously people coming.

[00:41:16] Tom Dosch: Do you know how many high schools McKinney has now?

[00:41:18] Matthew Heinrich: Three.

[00:41:18] Tom Dosch: Okay, so yeah. So this must be some big high schools then.

[00:41:22] Matthew Heinrich: A pretty big high school.

[00:41:22] Tom Dosch: They all have to be pretty big. Yes, because I heard this stat on. I can’t remember. Frisco’s number of high schools was crazy.

[00:41:29] Matthew Heinrich: Yeah, they have. They have a lot more.

[00:41:31] Tom Dosch: 10 or 12. It was crazy. I don’t want to misspeak on that. But it was a big number, which was wild. But really the difference in the population of Frisco is a larger population. But McKin like you said, getting up in the 250 range somewhere in there. These are enormous. Yeah. Enormous cities.

[00:41:46] Matthew Heinrich: And then where I come from, you know, from Erie county and in Pennsylvania is where I’m from. And it’s like 130,000 people for Erie County.

[00:41:56] Tom Dosch: In which county? 

[00:41:57] Matthew Heinrich: 1550 miles. And you have 71 miles in McKinney, square miles in McKinney and only 150,000 is kind of where the small town comes from.

[00:42:05] Tom Dosch: That’s incredible. Well, the stats on just Collin county, its population, and how. How much further it has to grow because there’s still so much land, like, located in Collin county is incredible. And a lot of the business that it’s attracted to because a lot of these new corporate moves up into Plano are sliding into Collin County. So. Yeah, just incredible. So it’s a good place to do banking. It’s a good place to. To do land. And we’re fortunate. Very fortunate for that.

[00:42:31] Matthew Heinrich: Yep. Not too far from all the development up north. Dallas Tollway, your way up in Frisco, all the way up to 380, all coming that way too, and edged up right up with McKinney as well.

[00:42:42] Tom Dosch: So, yeah, it’s the tollway expansion and the jobs that it’s bringing all the way up into Frisco and the developments like the Mix or the Star or Frisco Fields. There’s. There’s so much land for corporate expansion, and I think we’ll continue to see it. I think Plano’s is starting to kind of fill in. There’s not a lot of positions left to go there, and so Frisco will just continue to benefit from a lot of that.

[00:43:06] Matthew Heinrich: Agreed.

[00:43:06] Tom Dosch: So if somebody wants to connect with you both on the banking side and. Or the dream side, do you want to just kind of tell the audience how they could do that? Because I think there could be a lot of those listening that would love to pick your brain on probably lending and banking relationships, but also would be interested in checking out Dream.

[00:43:22] Matthew Heinrich: Sure, yeah. Everything with Dream is-r e m.org Everything’s there, our events pages there information on our annual. That’s coming up. Again, we do 20 events around the Metroplex. Not only our impact lunch, I would love to have you at that one. That’s kind of our corporate event each month. But discipleship groups, prayer groups, come network within all of those. Would love to have you there. And then you can get me@Matthew RM.org I’m sorry.com and connect with me there for any dream information. Be Happy to give it to you. And then Liberty Capital bank best way to get hold of me is, is my email and it’s first initial last name M. Heinrich. It’s H E I N R I c h@libertycapitalbank.com love to connect with you and answer any questions you have and see how it can help.

[00:44:05] Tom Dosch: We make it really confusing. We have DMRE and then we have Dream.

[00:44:09] Matthew Heinrich: I know first time I said that I’m like just a little bit, a little synergy there of just got to move them around a little bit.

[00:44:13] Tom Dosch: But I guess if somebody makes a mistake, it’ll get to us somehow.

[00:44:17] Matthew Heinrich: Hey Matthew. No, that’s the slide over.

[00:44:19] Tom Dosch: We’ll figure it out.

[00:44:20] Matthew Heinrich: Yeah, good.

[00:44:21] Tom Dosch: We’ll figure it out. But thanks for coming on the podcast today. It was fun. I was the last time we had lunch I was like it’d be great to get you on. I think our audience would really enjoy just hearing about what you’re doing on the lending side, but also just your story. I think having having spent so much time in a completely different industry but then all the the over the carryover in relationships because really real estate is a relationship business and being in banking, caring about people, understanding what their needs are, trying to help them find solutions, getting to do that every day, it makes sense that you would enjoy that whether you’re doing that for fitness or whether you’re doing that for banking.

[00:44:53] Matthew Heinrich: So well, that’s it. I mean it’s developing the relationships and we all know it has to start somewhere. So even though earlier I was talking about with the relationships in banking and all of the above, it’s gotta start somewhere and that’s where I just want to get to know you, get to understand where you’re, where you’re going, what we’re doing, as well as know the projects that you’re working on so we can continuously have that long term and going forward.

[00:45:11] Tom Dosch: Well, thanks again for coming on. Our audience thanks for listening. Please check us out on LinkedIn. Feel free to send me an email  Tom@dmre.com would love to connect with you. And then Matthew shared his information so definitely connect with him. We’d love to see you at the next DREAM event. Thanks Matthew.

[00:45:25] Matthew Heinrich: Thank you sir, Appreciate it.

[00:45:29] Outro: Thank you for listening to our podcast today. If you have questions about land you own in Texas, send us an email at texaslandguys@dmre.com and follow us on LinkedIn to stay updated.